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Anti-discrimination ordinance
My wife and I are supporters of GLBT equality. We support same-sex marriage. We believe that human beings are born with their sexual identity and do not choose it. When the state or federal legislature votes on issues like same-sex partner benefits, and marriage, we write our representatives in support of equality for all Michigan residents.
On June 10th 2008, Hamtramck City Council passed an ordinance titled Ordinance Reaffirming the Natural Rights of Hamtramck Residents to Equal Treatment Under the Law. On it's face it seems similar to ordinaces passed in other communities, but this one differs in a couple of important ways.
The new bureaucratic mechanism intended to expose and address discrimination would fall largely on the shoulders of real-estate agents. Even though real estate agents are already required to attend discrimination training and register names of the buyers and sellers with the county, they'll also have to register each "for sale" sign with the city. This local permitting process seems like a bureaucratic nightmare in a city which can barely handle bicycle licenses.
III - 10. (c) All real estate signs posted in the city of Hamtramck by any real estate agent, broker, or agency offering real property for sale must be registered with the clerk's office, and shall bare a current registration sticker. A registration sticker shall expire when the real property is sold or if the property is withdrawn from the market. To obtain a registration sticker, the agent shall report the name, address, and phone number of agent, broker or agency. The registration fee shall be fully refundable at the time of sale, only, when the city clerk is notified of the buyer's name, address, and phone number as well as the price the property sold for.
Section VIII goes on to say that all complaints will be filed within 180 days after the alleged violation and shall be "verified". Then it outlines the formation of a discrimination committee of eleven people in the "housing field":
Housing complaints, which tend to be supported by evidence, after investigation by the City, may be referred to a hearing panel consisting of five (5) persons representing various interests in the housing field. The panel for each case shall be selected by the City Manager from a standing committee of eleven (11) members, including, if possible, representatives of all City organizations related to housing.
The new process outlined in this ordinance will be problematic in a city which already has difficulty keeping boards and commissions staffed. Hamtramck is ill-equipped to handle important issues like housing and employment discrimination, but this ordinance attempts to wade into that water while simultaneously turning the city into some kind of crazy moral battleground.
Ann Arbor's ordinance, to which this one is compared, doesn't have a sticker requirement and calls upon the Human Relations Commission to hear complaints rather than the City Manager who presumably has enough on his plate.
City government ought to maintain the roads, storm drains, and provide for the mutual benefit and welfare of it's citizens. As it's written, this new ordinance is ill-conceived and will swamp the City Clerk with duplicate paperwork and redundant bureaucracy.
31 comments
Comment from: bob [Visitor] 
i respectfully disagree about people being born with there sexual prefrance
the bible says that marriage is between one man and one woman end of story
i belive the bible is the ONLY true word of god, so i must stay with my opnion with all due respect
the bible says that marriage is between one man and one woman end of story
i belive the bible is the ONLY true word of god, so i must stay with my opnion with all due respect
07/26/08 @ 12:56
Comment from: Mel [Member]
I fully support people having any opinion they want to have. What I cannot support is those same people trying to force their opinions on others by enacting laws that affect other people based solely on their own personal opinion. This country was founded with one key principle being that of the separation of church and state, and I strongly believe in that principle.
07/26/08 @ 13:52
Comment from: bob [Visitor]
there is no such thing as seperation of church and state.
i think where the confusion lies is where it says "congree will make no law ESTABLISHING a religion" while congress did NOT force america to be christian they did make on sundays converting the capital to a church.
the goverment was in the business of printing bibles
so while america dose not force you to be christian they do incourage it
so i cannot say that church and state are TOTALLY seperate
Bob
i think where the confusion lies is where it says "congree will make no law ESTABLISHING a religion" while congress did NOT force america to be christian they did make on sundays converting the capital to a church.
the goverment was in the business of printing bibles
so while america dose not force you to be christian they do incourage it
so i cannot say that church and state are TOTALLY seperate
Bob
07/26/08 @ 14:08
"Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man & his god, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of separation between church and state."Jefferson's "wall" is shorthand for the Establishment Clause in the US Constitution. Christian revisionists will claim that "America is a Christian nation", "The United States was founded upon Judeo Christian principles", and "The separation of state and church is a myth, with no basis in law". All of these arguments are invalid and the quotes used to make these arguments were taken out of context to rationalize a christian dominionist agenda.
-- Thomas Jefferson, from The "Wall of Separation Letter" to the Danbury Baptist Association in 1802
07/26/08 @ 17:35
Comment from: rh [Member]
Belief in gods or bibles or circus clowns or whatever books/pamphlets/edicts you might have read (or heck, let me just throw it out there, *not* read) is really not the point. Some on the city council are trying to pass a stupid law. Whatever it is they are trying to accomplish with this ordinance, and that is very difficult for me to discern, is not going to be accomplished, and I can't take them seriously after hearing the initial discussion about it at the council metting. I'm not going to advocate a stance on gender equality because it's really not the point here. It's just a dumb thing to try and do because the city doesn't have the resources to try and tell people who they can or can't sell their property to. What kind of "evidence" do they think they're going to get? It would be a lot of extra beaurocracy that accomplishes precisely nothing. I'm all for an anti-discrimination ordinance, particularly one with sharp, articulate language, but the whole sticker thing is really stupid.
07/26/08 @ 18:38
Comment from: albin [Member]
Hey, this is life on the internet. Question one thing, be attacked for another because it's part of the same bill/ordinance. Like this "English as the official language" email I keep getting. From now on this will be labeled as the "Hamtramck Gay Ordinance". But at least there's a public vote on it.
07/26/08 @ 21:36
Comment from: Tom [Visitor]
I too hate gay people and think they should be kept out of Hamtramck with their sodomies and pedophilia. The Bible says no gays and that's that.
On a serious note, I don't really care who fucks what and in what hole and I could care less if all of the sudden 20 gay couples moved in on my street. If you are so much concerned about somebody's sexual preference perhaps it's time to see a therapist. I could also care less about real estate agents and stickers. If you're buying/selling a house through an agent, you pay them a cut and it's their job to fill out paperwork and work out local issues and permits. It does not affect (as far as I know) private sellers. You're just looking for an excuse to look less homophobic when you rationalize the validity of this ordinance.
07/27/08 @ 15:57
You have the right to hate whomever you like but when it comes to "keeping people out", you have absolutely no right to do so.
Futher, there's no scientific link between homosexuality and pedophilia, so you'll have to use some other way to rationalize that claim.
Futher, there's no scientific link between homosexuality and pedophilia, so you'll have to use some other way to rationalize that claim.
07/27/08 @ 16:20
Comment from: mike D [Visitor]
What about the two young women in Dearborn that are suing McDonalds? (Mickey-D's refused to hire them due to their traditional headdress)
This ordinance would give individuals who face situations like this in housing, employment, and city services an immediate and local way to mediate the issue.
This ordinance has economic implications as well. Hamtramck, like most small Michigan cities, is cash strapped. We, as a city,cannot afford to make individuals feel unprotected or not welcomed while they live, work, visit and even search for a home within our city.
Feel that Hamtramck is doing just fine? Take a drive down Campau. Play the "count the empty store front" game. My last trip I scored a 24.
We are through the looking glass-all eyes are now upon us. The repeal of this ordinance would send a message that arguably, the most diverse city in the state cannot or will not shield EVERYONE from discrimination.
Shameless plug-visit hamtramckunited.org to learn more about the ordinance and the viewpoint of those asking for it's approval.
Mike D
Citizen of Hamtramck
This ordinance would give individuals who face situations like this in housing, employment, and city services an immediate and local way to mediate the issue.
This ordinance has economic implications as well. Hamtramck, like most small Michigan cities, is cash strapped. We, as a city,cannot afford to make individuals feel unprotected or not welcomed while they live, work, visit and even search for a home within our city.
Feel that Hamtramck is doing just fine? Take a drive down Campau. Play the "count the empty store front" game. My last trip I scored a 24.
We are through the looking glass-all eyes are now upon us. The repeal of this ordinance would send a message that arguably, the most diverse city in the state cannot or will not shield EVERYONE from discrimination.
Shameless plug-visit hamtramckunited.org to learn more about the ordinance and the viewpoint of those asking for it's approval.
Mike D
Citizen of Hamtramck
07/28/08 @ 10:25
Mike D: The employees at McDonalds are protected by State and Federal law. I trust state and federal authorities to handle it, and I'd be surprised if McDonald's isn't currently educating their franchisees about company policies on diversity. Basic services in Hamtramck are sub-standard for everyone, indiscriminately.
The Hamtramck ordinance is not about housing discrimination. The council has long expressed the want to regulate who is buying and selling houses. (The regulations don't apply to rentals.) I'm told that the ordinance in Ann Arbor is almost identical to ours, but does not contain the sticker and registration provisions.
The other difference between the Ann Arbor ordinance and our ordinance is that the complaints in A2 go to the Human Relations Commission and not the city manager.
I couldn't be more disappointed with the Triangle Foundation and the way they are presenting this. I heard that the recent committee meeting of council was about 1 1/2 hours long, and that more people spoke about flooding than the rights ordinance. On the website you linked to, only 30 minutes were posted, and it is being portrayed as an "anti-gay" meeting.
I heard that there were over 100 people there. The videos show that Gordon, Bert Johnson, and Bill Meyer told a room of 100 angry and frightened people that we should sit down and talk about this. The captions on the videos accuse all of them of being anti-gay, and visitors are encouraged to send angry letters to Cathie Gordon, Abdul Algazali, Bill Meyer and Bert Johnson. (Both Gordon and Algazali voted for the ordinance when it was before council; Alan Shulgon voted against it.)
Our friends in the Bangladeshi Community are compassionate people, and the Triangle Foundation should be using this opportunity to educate them. Attacking the religious leaders in the community and anyone who suggests talking about it is not an effective way to kick off a campaign. Our Muslim friends have been told all sorts of horrific things by the American Family Association that are not true.
The Hamtramck ordinance is not about housing discrimination. The council has long expressed the want to regulate who is buying and selling houses. (The regulations don't apply to rentals.) I'm told that the ordinance in Ann Arbor is almost identical to ours, but does not contain the sticker and registration provisions.
The other difference between the Ann Arbor ordinance and our ordinance is that the complaints in A2 go to the Human Relations Commission and not the city manager.
I couldn't be more disappointed with the Triangle Foundation and the way they are presenting this. I heard that the recent committee meeting of council was about 1 1/2 hours long, and that more people spoke about flooding than the rights ordinance. On the website you linked to, only 30 minutes were posted, and it is being portrayed as an "anti-gay" meeting.
I heard that there were over 100 people there. The videos show that Gordon, Bert Johnson, and Bill Meyer told a room of 100 angry and frightened people that we should sit down and talk about this. The captions on the videos accuse all of them of being anti-gay, and visitors are encouraged to send angry letters to Cathie Gordon, Abdul Algazali, Bill Meyer and Bert Johnson. (Both Gordon and Algazali voted for the ordinance when it was before council; Alan Shulgon voted against it.)
Our friends in the Bangladeshi Community are compassionate people, and the Triangle Foundation should be using this opportunity to educate them. Attacking the religious leaders in the community and anyone who suggests talking about it is not an effective way to kick off a campaign. Our Muslim friends have been told all sorts of horrific things by the American Family Association that are not true.
07/28/08 @ 12:56
I should add that on a second visit, I noticed that Bill Meyer's name and the video of him have been removed from the website and YouTube.
07/29/08 @ 00:33
Comment from: valcrow69 [Member]
Oaky people! Here again I am here to set it straight! Where does it stop?? Once we say Marriage is okay for anyone? Right?? Okay I want to marry my sister, my dog, cat, my brother, my mom, dad, my grandmother, grandfather? Where do you people that say marriage is for everyone stop?? Ahh now you have to make a choice...Cause there are a lot of freaks out there, that, can make the same arguement about marriage as you have. You going to tell them they are wrong??? Can you say HYPOCRITES???
Again-telling it the way it is!
TIM!
Again-telling it the way it is!
TIM!
07/29/08 @ 00:40
Comment from: valcrow69 [Member]
Maybe just a bunch of silly people. EH?? Wait I'm talking Canadian now...AHHHH You people... Get out of your LIB ways!! Makes me sicky....
07/29/08 @ 00:44
Comment from: valcrow69 [Member]
One last thing,,I love doing this!! The bible is a REFERENCE BOOK!!! Yes a lot in it makes you become a greater person, but lets not get to crazy on quoting things in it. Ask your local Catholic Father about it. People try to tell me how it says, "I shouldn't drink", because the bible says so???? Ahhh NO IT DOESN'T!! No where does it state/say, in the bible that I can't drink beer!
Read and Learn People!
TIM!
Read and Learn People!
TIM!
07/29/08 @ 00:53
Tim: Would you sell your house to a gay person?
07/29/08 @ 01:00
Comment from: rh [Visitor]
Attacking muslims for discrimination these days is a bit like attacking blacks for lynching whites - as an Arab-American, I've seen the complete erosion of my actual rights. Some people with names that sort of sound like mine blew some things up, and now I get molested at airports, accused of all kinds of crazy crap, and face the real possibility of being kidnapped by the CIA and shipped overseas to be tortured before being actually charged with a crime. Even if there were a city ordinance, would that help? I don't doubt there have been instances of discrimination against homosexuals, and I think it's sad. It doesn't sound like a pressing problem, and there are already federal laws against it. City ordinances aren't really going to protect anyone from anything, in all reality. As much as we'd like to puff out our tiny chests and show how progressive we are, we're a small town full of immigrants who probably won't read or care about anti-discrimination ordinance.
How many people have actually experienced (proveable) discrimination in the housing market in Hamtramck? Aren't we mostly strapped enough for money that we'd take it from anyone?
How many people have actually experienced (proveable) discrimination in the housing market in Hamtramck? Aren't we mostly strapped enough for money that we'd take it from anyone?
07/29/08 @ 10:00
Comment from: Mike D [Visitor]
rh- last week I wrote a letter to the editor, The Citizen, about the economics behind the ordinance. The passing of this ordinance will send a clear message that all are welcomed as well as their money.
Steven & Hillary thank you for this forum
Mike D.
Steven & Hillary thank you for this forum
Mike D.
07/29/08 @ 12:05
I heard that the anti-ordinance group held a rally today in Zussman Park, and that three of the Hamtramck United members, including Catrina Stackpoole, disrupted the presentations.
07/29/08 @ 22:40
rh: It seems to me that the majority of housing discrimination goes on in the rental market. I've been told that the best way to get a nice apartment in Hamtramck is to learn a few Polish words, scope out the advertisements at Polish Market, and then tell the potential landlords that I have no kids.
Anyone who can prove that they were discriminated against should go to one of the many fair housing advocacy organizations in Detroit for help with filing a complaint.
Anyone who can prove that they were discriminated against should go to one of the many fair housing advocacy organizations in Detroit for help with filing a complaint.
07/29/08 @ 22:47
Man...where did all the jesus freaks come from? I have nothing against religious people and those who take their holy books to blindly guide them through life, but ignorant assholes just annoy the living jebus out of me. Homosexuals = pedofiles? Where did you read that? The Bible?
Let's not forget about the devout Bible followers who molest young boys...they kill two birds with one stone.
Let's not forget about the devout Bible followers who molest young boys...they kill two birds with one stone.
07/30/08 @ 15:02
Comment from: Greg [Visitor]
With all due respect, I don't think "disrupted the presentations" accurately describes what happened at Zussman Park on Tuesday.
The anti-ordinance group held a 'rally' and 'press conference' in a public space with a megaphone.
Members of the public had every right to question, for example, why the anti-ordinance group brought in Brian Rooney from the far-right, Ann Arbor-based Thomas More Institute, who called transgender folks "perverts."
Why attack the Triangle Foundation at length, but not the Thomas More Institute?
The Citizen has a more balanced take on the rally:
http://www.hamtramckcitizen.com/news/opponents-of-rights-law-speak-out-in-rally
The anti-ordinance group held a 'rally' and 'press conference' in a public space with a megaphone.
Members of the public had every right to question, for example, why the anti-ordinance group brought in Brian Rooney from the far-right, Ann Arbor-based Thomas More Institute, who called transgender folks "perverts."
Why attack the Triangle Foundation at length, but not the Thomas More Institute?
The Citizen has a more balanced take on the rally:
http://www.hamtramckcitizen.com/news/opponents-of-rights-law-speak-out-in-rally
08/01/08 @ 15:00
Actually, having watched video of the rally, "disrupted the presentations" was putting it mildly, and I have less respect for The Citizen right now than ever before.
I don't understand your criticism that we did not specifically mention the Thomas More Institute. I linked to a post about Tom Monaghan, the founder of the institute. Anyone is welcome to add information, and if you think people should know more about Monanghan, Domino Farms, plans for a 250-foot crucifix, EWTN, or anything else, post it.
The behavior by Hamtramck United at the rally makes the other groups involved seem reasonable. They're not changing any minds with that rhetoric.
I don't understand your criticism that we did not specifically mention the Thomas More Institute. I linked to a post about Tom Monaghan, the founder of the institute. Anyone is welcome to add information, and if you think people should know more about Monanghan, Domino Farms, plans for a 250-foot crucifix, EWTN, or anything else, post it.
The behavior by Hamtramck United at the rally makes the other groups involved seem reasonable. They're not changing any minds with that rhetoric.
08/01/08 @ 16:02
I believe it's the Thomas More Law Center, not the institute.
08/01/08 @ 17:40
Comment from: Jeff davis [Visitor]
The Hamtramck Citizen is really publishing propoganda, not news, about this topic.
The paper completely ignored the behavior of the councilwoman and the man who physically accosted the speakers.
08/02/08 @ 08:01
Comment from: Greg [Visitor]
Steven: Thanks much for the correction.
Jeff: I was there. There was nothing physical.
Imagine for a moment that you have close gay friends. That you have close friends who are transgender. And then imagine someone taking a megaphone and blasting them, calling them "perverts" and degrading and demeaning them with the most inflammatory language possible...oh, and by the way, they should be able to be fired, demoted, kicked out of their rental unit, and told to get out of a party store.
Most people, most Hamtramckans, are against that.
But that's exactly what the far-right Thomas More Law Center and American Family Association have envisioned for us here in Hamtramck.
The question is, do we allow them to succeed?
Jeff: I was there. There was nothing physical.
Imagine for a moment that you have close gay friends. That you have close friends who are transgender. And then imagine someone taking a megaphone and blasting them, calling them "perverts" and degrading and demeaning them with the most inflammatory language possible...oh, and by the way, they should be able to be fired, demoted, kicked out of their rental unit, and told to get out of a party store.
Most people, most Hamtramckans, are against that.
But that's exactly what the far-right Thomas More Law Center and American Family Association have envisioned for us here in Hamtramck.
The question is, do we allow them to succeed?
08/02/08 @ 10:54
Greg: Richard Sparks went up to the speakers and started rubbing his hands on them while saying loudly that they would have to wash their clothes because he shook the hand of a gay man that day.
Imagine that you are a businessman with stock in your basement, and your basement flooded because the city didn't maintain the infrastructure. You go down to City Hall, and you find out that the city council is debating which public restroom transexuals should use.
Imagine that you are looking for houses in Hamtramck, and most real estate agents don't return your call because of excessive regulation and low commissions. You buy a house, and you have to register your purchase with 4 city departments because the city can't afford the software to tie the various departments together. (It takes 2 visits to the city clerk and 1 to the treasurer's office to get a $1 bicycle license).
Some people are saying that the regulatory portion is not a big deal, but if the referendum passes, it can only be amended by referendum.
Imagine that you are a businessman with stock in your basement, and your basement flooded because the city didn't maintain the infrastructure. You go down to City Hall, and you find out that the city council is debating which public restroom transexuals should use.
Imagine that you are looking for houses in Hamtramck, and most real estate agents don't return your call because of excessive regulation and low commissions. You buy a house, and you have to register your purchase with 4 city departments because the city can't afford the software to tie the various departments together. (It takes 2 visits to the city clerk and 1 to the treasurer's office to get a $1 bicycle license).
Some people are saying that the regulatory portion is not a big deal, but if the referendum passes, it can only be amended by referendum.
08/02/08 @ 12:29
I worked for a public relations company for a number of years. What we talked about every day was effective and ineffective ways to persuade people. The slogan "change minds" was painted above the door.
When I take a clinical view of the events surrounding this public debate, it's apparent that some tactics were employed that were less-than-effective forms of persuasion. It might even be said that they've had a negative outcome in terms of persuading fence-sitters.
The group represented by More Law Center seems to be successfully employing the well-worn fallacies of reason: appeal to fear, appeal to faith, appeal to tradition, slippery slope, and straw man.
Hamtramck United are using the fallacies: excluded middle (false dichotomy) and bandwagon fallacy.
I understand these tactics, they are time-tested routes to persuade people who are more inclined toward emotional and religious augments than logical ones.
Now about tactics. I've never heard an example of confrontation at a public demonstration going well. I know when the Klan was confronted in Ann Arbor everyone looked liked idiots.
I think things got worse when Sparks started touching the people gathered for the rally and then later pointed at some Muslim men and said something about "we" supporting your call to prayer. If those actions were intended to persuade anyone, I think they failed.
I think if I were a member of Hamtramck United, I'd have instead planned a silent rally/vigil in memory of Andrew Anthos the day after the AFA/More Center rally. I'd have worked to fill the park and have a moment of silence for the cause.
The example I always cite is from Lansing, my hometown. Instead of trying to square off with the Klan, the opposition stayed home and scheduled a rally for the following day where hundreds of people got down on their hands and knees and washed the Capitol steps. The front page of the State Journal was a little girl with a scrub brush.
When I take a clinical view of the events surrounding this public debate, it's apparent that some tactics were employed that were less-than-effective forms of persuasion. It might even be said that they've had a negative outcome in terms of persuading fence-sitters.
The group represented by More Law Center seems to be successfully employing the well-worn fallacies of reason: appeal to fear, appeal to faith, appeal to tradition, slippery slope, and straw man.
Hamtramck United are using the fallacies: excluded middle (false dichotomy) and bandwagon fallacy.
I understand these tactics, they are time-tested routes to persuade people who are more inclined toward emotional and religious augments than logical ones.
Now about tactics. I've never heard an example of confrontation at a public demonstration going well. I know when the Klan was confronted in Ann Arbor everyone looked liked idiots.
I think things got worse when Sparks started touching the people gathered for the rally and then later pointed at some Muslim men and said something about "we" supporting your call to prayer. If those actions were intended to persuade anyone, I think they failed.
I think if I were a member of Hamtramck United, I'd have instead planned a silent rally/vigil in memory of Andrew Anthos the day after the AFA/More Center rally. I'd have worked to fill the park and have a moment of silence for the cause.
The example I always cite is from Lansing, my hometown. Instead of trying to square off with the Klan, the opposition stayed home and scheduled a rally for the following day where hundreds of people got down on their hands and knees and washed the Capitol steps. The front page of the State Journal was a little girl with a scrub brush.
08/02/08 @ 14:38
Comment from: Greg [Visitor]
I respect your views on onerous municipal regulations. And I don't want to go through that when I buy a bike this week and go to register it with the city.
But now that national, conservative media have picked up the story, does anyone who honestly says they support equal rights for GLBT folks stand on the sidelines as the Right rubs its hands in joy over dividing people?
http://www.cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=33452
Some tactics work for progressives and some don't. And generally people are quick to learn what does and does not work, especially, as Steven said, with the PR tactics.
Unless we stand up now and reject this, our town will be divided with the most dehumanizing language we've seen yet.
These are the same people who served as legal advisors for the affirmative action ban in 06. These are the same people who drafted the marriage amendment in 04. They don't care what communities they divide. They don't care that they pit neighbors against one another, so long as their ideology prevails in the end.
That's honestly what it comes down to.
Thomas More was invited by the anti-ordinance group to participate in this.
Thomas More has, in turn, activated the national, conservative infrastructure to oppose the human rights ordinance.
Whether we still want to debate section III of the ordinance or not, that's fine. But I can guarantee you that section III will be the last thing on voters' minds come November.
And CNSNews has helpfully provided a preview of what's to come...if we allow it.
But now that national, conservative media have picked up the story, does anyone who honestly says they support equal rights for GLBT folks stand on the sidelines as the Right rubs its hands in joy over dividing people?
http://www.cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=33452
Some tactics work for progressives and some don't. And generally people are quick to learn what does and does not work, especially, as Steven said, with the PR tactics.
Unless we stand up now and reject this, our town will be divided with the most dehumanizing language we've seen yet.
These are the same people who served as legal advisors for the affirmative action ban in 06. These are the same people who drafted the marriage amendment in 04. They don't care what communities they divide. They don't care that they pit neighbors against one another, so long as their ideology prevails in the end.
That's honestly what it comes down to.
Thomas More was invited by the anti-ordinance group to participate in this.
Thomas More has, in turn, activated the national, conservative infrastructure to oppose the human rights ordinance.
Whether we still want to debate section III of the ordinance or not, that's fine. But I can guarantee you that section III will be the last thing on voters' minds come November.
And CNSNews has helpfully provided a preview of what's to come...if we allow it.
08/02/08 @ 18:59
Comment from: SomewhatRelated [Visitor]
Anytime I hear that name "Monaghan" I can not help but think about the terrible damage that him and his idiots from Ave Maria University caused to Saint Mary's College - of course with help of some of the idiots who were then in its administration. I remember all the firings of many good employees, all the BS and and a thousand prayer groups on campus in the name of Jesus. Hypocrisy has no boundaries so it did not surprise me to read in some of your comments about their wonderful come back here in the area where they are so well orientated.
08/05/08 @ 05:35
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